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ravidia in progressiveutah

anyone want to protest the "Tea party" with me?

This may be really, really short notice, but those tea parties really make me angry! I'd like to go and protest - would anyone be interested in joining me?

These "tea parties" will be at the federal building between 12:00 and 3:00, and then at the post ofc on 2100 s and 1795 w between 5:00 and 7:00.

I have ZERO experience organizing a protest - can anyone here help me?

Here are some ideas I had for signs:

"tea party = greed party"

"don't tax us poor rich people!"

"tax DIVIDENDS as income!!!"

"Right wing = WRONG planet"

"have you even STUDIED history?"

or I'm open to anything better, as well.

Sorry if this is not a good post, but I feel strongly about getting jerked around by the talking heads of the Right wing. The idea of people rallying against their own interests frustrates me to no end!!!

Edited to add: I don't feel like we're at a point where intelligent, useful discourse is occurring. And all these anonymous right wing posts are wasting my time. All I ask of anyone reading this is that they actually get informed. Read alternet.org, read Paul Krugman, Joe Stiglitz, Jeffrey Sachs. The Right is not the only alternative to policies you don't like. Look at A New Way Forward. We can disagree, but still have socially responsible viewpoints. The Right, as usual, is anything but right. Their policies got us into this mess. Don't become pawns for their agenda. Follow the money. Pay attention.

Note the fear, on the Right, of actual dissent. Note the unprecedented quantity of anonymous right wing replies in a small local community blog with low traffic. Please pay attention.


Thanks, it's been depressing.

-Alice

Comments

(Anonymous)

Don't Protest, DOCUMENT

I think a much better idea than protesting would be getting out to each and every Tea Party you can make it to with a video camera, and getting every bit of it on YouTube as soon as possible afterwards. The only way to get these morons back into their living rooms plugged into Fox News instead of eating up the political media air is to document the crazy. Also, when will you ever again have the chance to document this many lunatics together at one event, with Bishop, Shurtleff, Rep. Craig Frank and more standing proudly at the podium?

Re: Don't Protest, DOCUMENT

Can't we do BOTH? I was already planning to bring my video camera. But I feel like someone needs to speak out against this kind of insanity. We need someone out there, explaining why the kind of policy these tea party people are advocating, are, at best, unhelpful, and at worst, dangerous.

(Anonymous)

Re: Don't Protest, DOCUMENT

The tea baggers are self-satirizing. There is no need to make fun of them, but getting video of their comedy routine might be worth the time.

Re: Don't Protest, DOCUMENT

But the media doesn't treat them like the crazed extremists they are. And the media basically tells people what to think. Which gives them undeserved credibility in people's minds. It would be better to have someone there explaining the truth of the situation, I think. Well, I'll be out there protesting (and taping), in any case.

(Anonymous)

Misconceptions

It sounds like you have some misconceptions about the sort of people that might participate in a tea party protest. The tone of your post makes it sound like you haven't made any attempt to understand the opposing viewpoint on this issue, instead preferring to believe we are insane. I hope you'll reconsider.

"Greed party." I don't think asking for reasonable tax rates for my children and grandchildren is greedy. In fact, I would prefer that we take our lumps now and go through the pain of this financial crisis rather than kicking the can down the road for our descendants to deal with.

"Rich people" My family is pretty middle of the road in household income for the state. I do hope, however, that the wealthy people who employ my family members, won't be taxed so heavily that they lay off the people I love.

"History" Yes, though I certainly could stand to learn more. I try to read and learn as I can, but working to keep food on the table doesn't leave as much free time as I'd like for deep dives into history. (Reading the blogs is a bit of a guilty pleasure.) The history I'm familiar with teaches me that civilizations with the greatest economic liberty have been the most successful. I'm nervous to go down a road that places us in financial bondage. I wish our government could live within its means. I don't make enough money to actually pay a lot of income taxes, but it feels so wrong to me use taxes as a social weapon rather than as a fair means for providing for our common needs.

We really do believe we're rallying in favor of our interest and the interest of our children. It sounds like you disagree, but I hope you will give us the benefit of the doubt and disagree with us respectfully. Good luck at the protest!

Bradley Ross

(Anonymous)

Re: Misconceptions

It seems that YOU are the one who needs a lesson in history, and in debate. If you are going to take an opposing viewpoint, you should have facts to back up your claims. It is our RIGHT as a free peole to protest a govenments actions. 46% of the American people did NOT vote for Obama. I go because I object to Obama giving the so-called Stimulous Act over to the democrats to subvert and spend countless TRILLIONS (with a "T") of my money and my children's and my grandchildren's money so that ACORN can count more dead people as voting citizens.

The tea parties are not a lunatic fringe movement, contrary to the MSN coverage that you have been watching. We are not protesting Obama, he has not even been mentioned. We are protesting the actions of the people we have sent to Washington to REPRESENT US, who were ELECTED BY US, and who are subverting the will of the people for their own power grab. There are Democrats, Independents, Republicans, Populists, Libertarians, all joining the "parties". There has been no militant groups attending so far (contrary to the democrat smear machine)

Are you aware of the fact that no one knows where the money from TARP is going? There is no accountability records at this time. Two senators are trying to track the money, and they have to use GOOGLE, because there is no paper trail. They are tracking the money by newspaper accts.when it is reported that a city recieves stimulas money. Is this how YOU pay your bills--with other people's money?

"Such searches led the Cantor-Thune group to the Binghamton, New York Press & News-Bulletin for a glimpse into how HUD is spending that $1.5 billion in the Homeless Prevention Fund. In early March, the paper reported that the small town of Union, New York would receive $578,661 from the Fund, even though "Union did not request the money and does not currently have homeless programs in place in the town to administer such funds."

An article in the Altoona Mirror reported that the small central Pennsylvania town was going to receive $819,000 from the Fund even though Altoona officials "may not have enough of a homelessness problem to use it." And a Google search turned up a report from WHP-TV in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania saying the city would receive $855,478 from the Fund, but does not know what to do with it."
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/politics/Congress-needs-Google-to-find-out-where-stimulus-money-went-42768077.html

THIS IS WHY WE ARE PROTESTING. Nothing more, and cetainly NOT against Obama. We are protesting his policies, as is our right.

Please be sure to attend, as your paper/TV will not give an accurate accounting of the event. Maybe you'll be able to contrast how the event is covered in the newspapers and on TV. If you are a true observer you will not allow your bias to color real activities.

Have fun with your video camera's, don't forget to have your battery charged....

terri yeisley

(Anonymous)

Re: Misconceptions

Every tea-bagger event so far has been centered on calls for the impeachment of President Obama. I expect the same will be true in Utah.

Re: Misconceptions

It is unfortunate that you are not protesting these things independently, and reasonably. The tea parties are paid for by Koch, and sanctioned and encouraged by those open minded folk at FOX NEWS, such as the lovely and talented Glenn Beck.

I also hate what is happening. We are owned by a corporate Oligarchy. But I'm savvy enough to know when I'm being had. I suggest you look into "A New Way Forward," if you're interested in meaningful protest that is actually grass roots.

Re: Misconceptions

Nevermind - I get it now. You are one of those people who think "democrats" are the problem. And you make a point to not specifically name Obama, as his approval ratings are very high, and blaming him may be unpalatable to the serf pawns. I've read about these tactics.

Re: Misconceptions

Of course you have a right to protest, obvious as YOUR republicans would regularly organize to protest the democratic anti-war protests over these last 8 years. Or to protest anti-Bush rallies. Or just basically to protest any progressive protest out there. But you have a problem, apparently, with my wanting to protest your protests?

I'm sorry to tell you this, but I understand all too well what these tea parties really are for. And, terri, I also can't help wonder why you are posting on a progressive journal in UTAH? And why you weren't protesting TARP when Bush enacted it? IT was just as bad then as it is, now. And yet you are worried about partisanship tainting my view? Hmm, pot. What color is that kettle again?

Re: Misconceptions

I'm sorry, but I can't take your willful ignorance seriously. Your condescending tone, I certainly get, however. Ironic that you write my frustration off as ignorance.

These astro-turfed "tea parties" are paid for, and organized by, the Koch family, and it's ultra right wing sub-group, Freedomworks. Look into it. I mean, this is astroturfing of the worst magnitude, and you are foolish enough to eat it all up. You see, I don't think you are insane, just the truth behind your "position." I simply think you are, again, willfully ignorant.

And I can't help but wonder if you have ever protested anything in your life? Were you out there, taking to the streets, over Reagan's tax increases? Or his enormous deficit spending? Or Bush's no-contract bidding? Or His enormous deficits? Or his keeping war costs off the books, to make his deficits look smaller? Or, were you there, fighting for the middle class, when the original Bush tax cuts were written, originally(!) to expire in 2010, as Obama is merely proposing to allow to happen? Yeah, that's the evil tax increase this tea party is up in arms over. Apparently, it would be socialism, communism, and fascism, rolled into one, to return to Clinton-era tax rates (which were, by the way, historically low). Were you out there, fighting the good fight for dividend tax increases, so the the wealthy do actually have to pay as much in taxesw as the middle class? Because, although a great deal of the wealthiest people get a great deal of their wealth from dividends, those same dividends are only taxed at 15%. Middle class incomes are taxes closer to around 25%. But, I suppose from your "logic," you fear that if the rich don't remain insanely rich forever, it's the middle class that will suffer.

In you historical educational forays, did you discover that the only other time in America history where there was such a disparity in wealth, was just before the first Great Depression?

Did you learn that it was spending, Keynesian govenrment spending, that got us out of that Depression? And if you're going to argue that WWII is actually what dragged us out of it, then you are arguing semantics, as WWII was about one of the biggest public works projects ever to be endeavored. But trying Keynesian again, that's evil bogeyman socialism in action?

And, incidentally, you really think that the tea parties are going to be respect fueled meetings of minds? Did you get that idea from that bastion of civility and sanity, Glenn Beck? Or was it Michelle Bachmann that convinced you? Was it her call to arm ourselves against the impending Obama "fascist" government that convinced you?

And while I'm at it, why are you even on a progressive journal, Bradley? Clearly you get your talking points from somewhere well to the Right, so I can't help but wonder who's paying you, or for whom you volunteered, to go out and get your ill-informed "message" out?

(Anonymous)

Re: Misconceptions

Here's some good counter protest sign ideas for you...

I Love Generational Theft!!

I Love bailing out banks, Wall Street and the Auto Industry!

Thanks for paying my delinquent mortgage!

I don't even know how to spell Trillienz! Much less know what it means.

Don't you know that sending $900M to Hamas IS a Stimulus?

Don't you know that building Frisbee Golf Courses is Stimulus?

and finally...

Too stupid to know I'm getting screwed!

(Anonymous)

Re: Misconceptions

I think the tea parties are an an exercise in self-indulgent buffoonery. Its participants are white males who listen to talk radio and get off on hyperbolic rhetoric that makes them feel good but does not actually do anything.

In short, these lame tea parties are full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

Scared of them I am not.

Re: Misconceptions

If sending 900 million to Hamas is a stimulus, we'd be in much better shape than we are currently in, considering how much we send Israel, and for how long we've done so. We'd all have gold houses by now.

Thanks again, anonymous (another one!). I'm sorry that you don't know how to spell trillions, let alone understand what it means. The only solution, surely, is to privatize education, right? Get rid of all those pesky public schools, and replace them with for-profit charters. That worked SO WELL for healthcare, why aren't we trying it on education? Maybe you could learn about math and spelling, finally. Poor thing.

Here's a nice sign for you:

"Oh noes! Republicans are revolting!"

(Anonymous)

Re: Misconceptions

"Your condescending tone" Sorry if I came off sounding condescending. I was trying avoid being overly combative. I probably mangled things in trying to tone down my response. My apologies. I had also better apologize in advance for a really long comment. I have a verbosity curse. :)

You made an accusation of astroturfing. Are all the Code Pink rallies astroturf because they are associated with an existing interest group? Are all of the events put together by MoveOn.org automatically fake by virtue of the involvement of a left-wing organization? I certainly don't think so.

The tea party that my wife participated in was organized by a local small business owner. He sent a link with information to a national blogger who shared the information with his readers. My wife read the blog post and decided to attend. Just the sort of organization method you might expect from a genuine grassroots movement. The event wasn’t full of mayhem and fury. But a message was sent to Washington, and that was the point.

"And I can't help but wonder if you have ever protested anything in your life?" Aren’t first-time protesters one of the best indicators of a real grassroots movement?

I think you're missing the gist of the tea party protests. They aren’t about Obama’s tax policies. They are about spending more money than we have. We really started wigging out at the end of the Bush administration when we talked about racking up deficits in the trillions. It is like we reached a tipping point where we finally said, ENOUGH! We've been uncomfortable with the deep deficits for a long time. I'm scared of a deficit that is an order of magnitude larger than anything we've ever seen before.

President Obama then doubled down on Bush’s bailout with a whole bunch of spending programs that was passed in haste with little debate. That doesn’t feel very wise to me.

I think we were hoodwinked to some degree by people in the financial industry that had an interest in making the situation seem more dire than it really was so that they could get government money to cover their bad bets. This is exactly the sort of fight where I would expect progressives to stand up and shout with us!

But you're not shouting with us. So we are sending more money to failing banks and giant corporations. Do you really want that? If not, then join with the tea party protesters who are trying to make that exact point!

"why are you even on a progressive journal, Bradley?" Am I unwelcome here? I clicked to your site from utahbloghive.org. I created that site with the intention of encouraging dialogue across the political spectrum in our state. Nobody pays me to do that. (But if you’re offering....) My hope is that reading a diversity of opinions will prevent me from being "willfully ignorant." For the same reason, I read political editorials from both the left and right. I listen to podcasts from both the left and the right. I think it is healthy. Nevertheless, I respect your right to make whatever rules you want for your own corner of the internet. If comments with an opposing viewpoint are prohibited here, please make it known and I will honor your request.

Bradley Ross

(Anonymous)

Re: Misconceptions

More willful ignorance. If you don't know the difference between an organization that gets ALL of its money from members, and who OPENLY proclaims who they are AND where their money comes from, and an organization who uses their power to pull articles from national magazines, for fear that people will discover where the money comes from, then you are worse off than I originally guessed.

And, luckily, nothing else you said warrants response, as it's just repeating the talking points.

And I see that you had no cogent reply to any of my points. Good, I really don't have time for this. I got the gist of your obfuscations: "Obama, is way worse than ALL of the other things you mentioned, for reasons I don't fully understand. That's why I just recently decided that this one thing in my life is worth protesting." Awesome.

No, I'm not going to join a rally funded (again, IN SECRET) by an ultra-right wing organization. You are welcome to continue being "hoodwinked." If I am going to rally against Obama's policies, it will because they are TOO FAR TO THE RIGHT, not because they are too far to the left. If Paul Krugman or Dennis Kucinich ever starts a protest, you may count me as signed up. I prefer INTELLIGENT, WELL-INFORMED and WELL-REASONED debate. And I would never be involved with ANYTHING sanctioned by the likes of MICHELLE MALKIN, SEAN HANNITY, GLENN BECK, ANN COULTER or FOX NEWS. Non partisan, indeed.

And, incidentally, if you're so well-informed, I wonder about your cherry-picking the "missions" of the tea parties. The agendas are ON their website, for goodness sake.

No one is making rules against your comments. We're not the party that hand picked "town hall" participants for presidential meetings, or made anyone sign "loyalty oaths" before seeing the president give a speech.

And I read a diversity of opinions, as well. As much as you listed AND a minor in Political Science, if you want this to be some kind of pissing contest, or "I'm more informed, and my points are more valid than yours" kind of thing. I respect dissent, as long as there is merit in it, You see, you have the right to say whatever you want, but I also have the right to not respect it, when it is foolish. And I can not help but smell a rat in all these sudden pro-RIGHT posts on a tiny local progressive livejournal. Please inform us of where we may find your online presence, Bradley... I, personally, have had a livejournal account for several years. Transparency vs the Right, yet again.

And I'm done with this argument. Enjoy being RIGHT.

Re: Misconceptions

The above post was mine, by the way.

(Anonymous)

Re: Misconceptions

I think the conversation has run out of steam, but you asked for my online presence. You can find the aggregator of Utah political blogs that I created here: utahbloghive.org. My personal blog about politics (though not very active) is here: lavalane.org/blava.

I'll just leave you with one final link to Instapundit that provides a chart for what I tried to express in words:
http://tinyurl.com/cm4tuo

Bradley Ross

(Anonymous)

As an obama voter who worked hard to bring hope and change and restore our democracy, I am appalled that some "progressive" outlets like this blog are exhorting their readers to go out and beat up and instigate violence at these rallies.

I mean, do we hate dissent now that we hold the reigns? Is that our policy?
Where are you reading "beat up" and "instigate violence"? If dissenting signs = violent beatings, then, wow, what kind of democracy did you vote for???

Another "anonymous" poster, I note.

Or wait...

Are you saying blogs "like this one" to indicate similar blogs, although not this one? I hope that's it, and not that you have such remedial reading comprehension skills. Why on earth would you, as you claim, a democrat, have a problem with me suggesting people carry signs that disagree with the mission of right wing tea parties? I would really love a response on this. How is that opposite to the spirit of change and hope?

And please feel free to copy and paste where you read about this violent beating stuff, from any of the comments, or from the post, above. I'd love to see it.

(Anonymous)

Re: Or wait...

It seems to me that we won the election. Our position is now the affirmative position of power.

There is no question that we each retain our First Amendment rights to free speech regardless of who is president.

But our voice is no longer the voice of dissent, it is the voice of the empowered, and we should be grateful for that.

To mobilize, essentially on behalf of the oval office, against citizens with a dissenting opinion, would be grossly inappropriate.

(Anonymous)

Re: Or wait...

Since you use the words "we won", I'm going to assume you are Democrat. I vote person and not party, as there are some from both parties I don't want making decisions for me.

I will attend the local Tea Party, as an observer. I want to hear what they have to say and will make my own decision if I want to attend another. From what I have read, they are for Patriots. A rose is a rose, so let's see what they define as Patriots. I do know that I don't like working hard to support lazy or incompetent people.

If Obama had said during his campaign that he was going to spend Trillions of dollars of future money, would he have been elected? We got hit hard and fast, and that is what the Tea Party is about, IMO. People want the transparency Obama promised, and are not getting it. I don't mind paying into a plan that I can see an outcome for and shows it's intent. I don't like people telling me I have to give them money because they have an idea. Explain the idea, then I will decide if it's worth my hard earned money.

The Tea Parties are nothing more than a Constitutional grievance of the government to show responsibility in it's spending. Who wouldn't want that?

Dan

Re: Or wait...

The tea parties are paid for, and sanctioned by the rightest of the right. Who would want to align themselves with such a movement? Again, if I want to disagree with the government, I want to do it for the correct reasons, not for the Right ones.

AND - GOING FORWARD, I WILL ONLY RESPOND TO PEOPLE WITH VALID LIVEJOURNAL ACCOUNTS, THAT HAVE BEEN ACTIVE FOR AT LEAST A FEW MONTHS. I HAVE NO INTEREST IN WAGING A ONE-PERSON STRUGGLE AGAINST A FACELESS OPPOSITION, WHO CAN FREELY CLAIM WHATEVER THEY LIKE, WITH NO WAY OF MY VERIFYING THE ACCURACY OF THEIR CLAIMS OR THEIR MOTIVES.

(Anonymous)

Re: Or wait...

I can see from this post that the subject dies in it's openness and now resides with the individuals whom court like mindedness. As so is the government at this time. A shame.

Dan L

Re: Or wait...

Protesting their misinformation-athons has nothing to do with promoting Obama. I want to protest the lot of them. This country (including Obama) should be moving to the left, not the right. You are just assuming my protest is in support of Obama. I voted for him, but wouldn't do it again. I am against all of this corporate-controlled feudalism, but am most especially against when huge billionaire ultra-right wing organizations mobilize people under false presmises. The people are being manipulated, and I do have a problem with that.

"we" didn't win anything.

(Anonymous)

Re: Or wait...

Be serious. no simultaneous coordinated nationwide protests happen without a few large central funders and organizers. not even progressive ones. I've seen no clear evidence that these "Tea Parties" are coordinated at any higher level than talk radio.

Accordingly, there's no reason to expect that these events will be any more of a "threat" than the influence that particular brand is capable of representing now that America has turned the page on them.

And, BTW, when you claim to have once supported Obama, but now are wise to his "Liberal Fascism", I wonder if you aren't the troll, LJ account or no. Even if you are sincerely going to suppose that you're too pure to stand by the President we voted into office only four months ago, you come off sounding like an extremist loon, like all those Paulnuts who like to pretend they were never Bush-supporters

(Anonymous)

Re: Or wait...

No troll here. I even sign my posts with my real name. Even signing up I could use an alias. I am a moderator on a forum, and that's just what the Internet is. Faceless people in communication.

I am neither of the two parties, just someone who tries to use common sense in everyday life. There are a couple of things to consider in politics. First, most of our population does not vote. A shame, but a fact. Second is that the people who have the most money behind them.......wins. Thirdly, the media is a sharp tool, when used effectively, to convince people to do something. They can make you believe a lie if they repeat it long enough. Fourth, I have never trusted attorney's to do anything for me, and I definitely don't trust them running a country. They are needed in cases, but they can't run their own practice without money managers and paralegals. Most have never worked a hard day in their life, so how can they understand hard working dad's and mom's.

It's just a debatable post, and not intended to bash anyone.

BTW- I live in Tennessee, but lived in Orem back in 1975.

Dan L